Don't be surprised if there is a move for decertification of PB&PA after the expiration of the current contract.
Keep in mind that this is the opinion of a few sergeants that I have spoken to about the subject.
We would like to provide a forum for discussion concerning this very issue.
We will print all comments (no personal attacks) pro or con.
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25 comments:
We should consider a different union, maybe a seperate lodge of fop?
Decertification?? For what? Like we are going to find other Sgts willing to do any work for our union? Come on, Sgts are even lazier than the PO's and the screwed up FOP!! Like if we have the Teamsters it's gonna get that web page updated??
I've been a Sgt for 10 yrs and have not needed the services of the PBPA (thank God)! I have no clue what this union does for us. It seems to me that the P.O.'s have MUCH more security, etc than we do. If someone knows of ANY good the PBPA does for us, I'd like to hear it. They seem pretty useless to me.
Just another social club as far as I'm concerned. golf Outings, Corned Beef Dinners etc. The organizations is of no comparison to the Lts. Assn.
As a sergeant, I find our current "union" to be all but useless.
What do they do for us? As far as contract negotiations go, the last two prove that we're only and always going to get whatever FOP negotiates. Our legal defense fund is a joke, as we only have 1300 sergeants contributing a portion of their union dues into said fund. Should a sergeant face major job-related litigation, we'll be financially wiped out (think SOS scandle).
There is absolutely no benefit to being in the PB&PA. We should go back to the FOP with the Police Officers.
I could go on-and-on, but whats the point? We're most likely stuck with these idiots and their goofy web site for the rest of our careers.
Why should we boycott Citgo??
Can someone give me some input on Sgt.Don Jerome from 025 and when he was at 07.
Stand up guy or anther hack ?
Anonymous said...
Why should we boycott Citgo??
Wed Dec 27, 07:16:00 PM
Citgo is a Venezuelan State owned company. Hugo Chavez is the president of that anti-American country who sides with North Korea and Iran.
Don Jerome is the overall, hands down, absolute best sergeant in the entire Chicago Police Department. Without him, the 025th District 3rd Watch would cease to function, as all the other sergeants are worthless dogasses. In fact, the Department would be a better place if Don was immediately be promoted to ADS.
But if you don't believe me, just ask Don himself. He will tell you to your face how good he is.
Secret study group met 2 nights ago for the Lt.s test and alas, I was not invited! Met at undisclosed location on the north side. So, 30% merit and another 25% given the answers....great leaves about 60 spots for the rest of us to fight over!
M.C.,W.W.Jr.,D.O. or D.S. can you please call me or fax me your "notes".
I agree with the sentiment behind this posting. We are, as Sergeants under represented, with respect to a collective bargaining organization. However, we must put some of the blame on our own shoulders. I don't attend meetings, and voice my opinion. I suspect many other Sergeants are un happy with the PBPA, but like me do very little to change the situation.
On the other hand, our representitives are there and should take a more active and public roll in a wide array of issues unique to us. When is the last time an officer from the union reached out to a field Sergeant. If you call down to the PBPA, you get an answering service. I guess thier very busy planning the next golf outing. How about showing up to a Roll Call.
How much does the union president make?
I have a question.....how many of you guys beefing have gone to a union meeting recently?? How about at all?? I know I haven't, guess I don't have anything to beef about so shut up or volunteer YOUR time!!!
Why would anyone want to "decertify" PBPA? the Sergeants Association, AKA the SERGEANTS elected to run it, are solely in charge of their website, updating their website etc. If you are not satisfied with the way your elected representatives are performing, then I would suggest electing someone else.
Also, the Sergeants association doesn't have to pay the attorneys for "legal defense" all they have to do is pay PBPA, who in turn pays the attorneys for the legal defense AND for the labor negotiations. It won't break the Sergeants association bank.
PBPA provides support and legal expertise. They provided Unit 156 with their attorney of choice, Gittler et al. Who are the SAME attorneys that drafted the original FOP contract.
The problem with joining FOP, is that you will NEVER be represented properly if you are in Lodge 7, you will NEVER be able to get OUT of FOP AND, it seems that the PO's aren't very satisfied with FOP either, and FOP DOES inflict a lot more control over Lodge 7 than PBPA does over Unit 156 AB&C...
Basically, if you want something different, you have to get involved. Being in ANY union requires getting involved, or you will not be heard and your concerns won't be addressed. I am sorry to see the Sergeants Association's members not satisfied with how the association is being run. (FYI I am no longer a sergeant - haven't been in quite a while - so I don't really have any personal agenda here. )
You get what you pay for. We are paying for nothing. Every other union pays their leadership a stipend for the headaches involved. If you're working 2210 or 1610 on days, you make the same money with a whole lot less grief than the president of the PB&PA.
Want someone running the show and doing it well? Pay for it, meaning our president should get lieutenant's pay at least.
We agree that the position of president should be full time and be paid at a rate of Lt.
One person however isn't enough to run the shop.
why do we need a seperate union anyway? Lets get together with the P.O.'s and dump both unions and go with the teamsters. Our mayor and aldercreatures are a bunch of gangsters so lets give them a taste of their own medicine and make them deal with gangsters at contract time. I would bet we can't do worse than we are already.
At the local level in regards to contract negotiations and filing grievances; there is not much difference between the PBPA and the FOP.
HOWEVER, many of us feel the FOP is the “organization” that should be leading the Chicago Police Sergeant’s Association. The FOP is the largest nationwide organization with the biggest voice in Washington D.C. and in Springfield when it comes to IMPORTANT issues such as pension and police officers rights. WE NEED TO BE PART OF THE FOP. Do not get confused with the current Chicago Lodge #7 which represents all D-1, D-2 and D-2A members. We do not want to part of Lodge 7 and it’s members do not want us in #7 understandably. We need to form our own Lodge. With 1300 sergeants we would be the 2nd largest lodge in Illinois.
On a few occasions PBPA state lodge representatives have come to sergeant’s meetings and to put it mildly, these guys are in a cloud when it comes it any issues that they should be working on downstate. They have admitted that they are just fraternal representatives and they have great looking golf shirts with neat PBPA logos on ‘em.
Our 1st issue as of 2007 should be to go FOP – our own lodge.
Next, through changing the bylaws, strengthen the position of president and pay him more money – this will attract a few more competent, smart sergeants willing to run for president and travel to 39th and Ashland everyday to do a good job for all the members.
The FOP represents about 10,500 full working members. President Donahue of Lodge 7 makes ADS/D-7 pay, $140,000+ a year. 5 other FOP elected police officers are allowed by the department to work FULL time at Lodge 7 and they make Captain/D-5 pay, $100,000+ a year. The Sergeant’s Association which represents 1200 members should be allowed by the city to have at least 2 more full time sergeant’s working. (This should be addressed at contract negations) Once the mortgage is paid off on the sergeant’s building at 39th and Ashland, the 2 additional sergeants could be paid more money.
With 3 FULL TIME MEMBERS .. they can spend their time fighting and fucking with the city like their supposed to. Give the pricks at headquarters and city hall chest pains etc. so they can die early. I know it sounds cruel, but that’s want GOOD, COMPETENT union official are supposed to do. After all, the “city” wants to fuck us first ! ! !
Sorry, I think you are all wrong. Why pay them more money? $90,000 a year for a desk job is pretty friggin' good. The FOP? You have got to be kidding me? They are as corrupt as any organization out there. They lied to the P.O.'s and Detectives and sided with the City on many issues. They gave the City back over $20 million to get 29 and a day when that is what Daley NEEDED to get people out of here. They didn't negotiate shit and gave away money that was supposed to be in the pension. No-one, deserves the amount of money the FOP board members are getting paid. It is insane. What use is a representative of a bargaining unit if he no longer represents his members? If the president of the union has no need for a pay increase or benefits for himself than he will not negotiate they way he should. I would hope I would, but who knows. Our biggest problem is there is no accountability for either unit. Our members are too lazy and too disheartened by the past negotiations to wast the time to go to the meetings and use their off time to protest/vote/etc...That is the problem.
. . . The FOP? You have got to be kidding me? . . They lied to the P.O.'s and Detectives and sided with the City . . .
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NO, NO.. you don't understand.. of course LODGE 7 is crap.. I know, I know.
We would have OUR OWN LODGE.. NOTHING TO DO WITH #7 and company. ANY LOCAL UNION has the potential to become corrupt, PBPA, FOP AAOP, whatever. At that time it’s necessary to vote out the excess baggage of that local lodge. I am saying having the "FOP" in name is better for representing us in Springfield and Washington D.C. As for those who run our local shop, it’s up to us to vote in someone competent. Don't think the national or state FOP, Teamsters, or PBPA will make a great difference in contract, grievance, or arbitration issues.. it’s UP TO OUR LOCAL LODGE whether it’s FOP, ABC, PBPA whatever.
You really have to look at the whole picture.. Pension issues, Police Officers rights etc, the name itself "FOP" is the only one recognized by these politicians.
And by the way, don't ever think having the Teamsters would help us.. it would be a disaster. The oldest, largest union known for its corruption and getting in bed with city would never help us.
It would be to great advantage if Lodge 7 wakes up and allows the 1300 sergeants form their own separate union. In time both SEPARATE lodges can work together as a LARGER representation of Chicago Police FOP members that can go downstate and Washington and be recognized as the second largest police department in the country.
People have to put their egos aside and realize this!!!
AND STOP GETTING CONFUSED WITH FOP LODGE 7 ANF OUR OWN POTENTIAL FOP LODGE! ! !
The sins (or alleged sins) of LODGE 7 have nothing to do with the our own FOP unit.
. . . Sorry, I think you are all wrong. Why pay them more money? . . .
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The reason you have to pay the President more money is HOW you hold someone more accountable. I make sergeants pay and work in a ghetto district. I’ll be honest, I don’t do much. I get to work in ½ an hour, have my coffee, go to a 10-1 when someone needs help and get the hell out when I’m done. SO WHY, WHY would I ever what to travel to 39th and Ashland and deal with 1300 crying adults and the jag-off city for the same pay when I can be sitting in the hole watching 2 DVDs a day? ?
Remember the Stone Park Police a few years ago? They made $13,000 a year back in 1997. Just about all of them were corrupt! YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!
If you offer more money there may be some intelligent, competent sergeant out there who would be more willing to run for President if the money was there.
We have to stop thinking like cheap-ass coppers and wake up ! !
Fri Dec 29, 11:08:00 PM
Why pay them more money? You think it's such a great deal, YOU do it!!
As I said before, you get what you PAY for. We pay for NOTHING!!! We get people interested in glory, the title, or whatever motivates them, but I for one wouldn't bust my balls for the same money I get to do the job I do now.
All sergeants make the same money, but our leadership deserves more, assuming they DO more. Good will, slaps on the back of thanks from the membership doesn't buy anything. It's not worth the aggravation when you make the same money working the 10 sector.
Lieutenant's pay should be the base for the president and a little less for VP. You get what you pay for.
Right now we pay for nothing and we're getting nothing.
The fact that DJ was promoted from A/4 and was in SOS before that, yet is on his 3rd District in almost 4 years should tell you something. It's not for lack of trying. He has put a resume in for every job going, including dog catcher. Ask him why he left 019. It doesn't pay to cross an angry husband. We won't even go into his chocolate cravings.
Please enlighten us to the DJ saga of events in 019.
I was around when the whole union issue started in 1997(?). The FOP would not let us start our own lodge. The Sgt's Association went and found the PBPA. The choices were : PBPA, Lodge 7 without representation, or the teamsters. The PBPA was our life preserver after Nolan fed us to the sharks. The FOP is not as big as you think. Most of the rest of Illinois is PBPA. Both are part of NAPO(?), which speaks for everybody. I do think that as the biggest local we should be getting better treatment from the PBPA>
Just so you know it Gordy Barnill set up that site originally and when he didnt get elected president he took the site and wont change it. Blame him for it not the current union.
By the way - how many people ran for election in the last Sgt.s union elections. sure you can bitch but you cant get off your butt and do something constructive can you.
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